we'll be back live exactly one hour from now. another edition of "360" live from boston. "piers morgan live" starts now. this is "piers morgan live." welcome to our viewers in the united states and around the world. tonight, the hunt for justice. one week after the bombings that

shocked boston and the world, one suspect is dead, one is under guard in a hospital charged with using a weapon of mass destruction. in dramatic bedside hearing today, dzhokhar tsarnaev learned he could face the death penalty. this on the day the city of boston paid tribute to the victims with a moment of silence. the president also observed that moment today at the white house. one victim, krystle campbell, was laid to rest this morning. >> present arms! >> another lu lingzi was remembered at boston university a little while ago. tonight i'll talk to people who knew the tsarnaev brothers and to the state senator who says dzhokhar tsarnaev should be tortured to save more lives. the latest breaking news on the investigation. a government source tells cnn that dzhokhar tsarnaev claims no foreign terrorist groups were involved in the incident. he says he and his brother tamerlan -- he says brother

tamerlan was the mastermind. tsarnaev's initial court appearance was today in his hospital room. he was able to speak one word, no, when asked if he could afford an attorney. he now has a public defender the court found today. he's alert, mentally competent and lucid. joining me is jake tapper live in boston. pretty dramatic developments late in the day here. from what we now believe, dzhokhar tsarnaev may have told the investigators in written answers, is that right? >> reporter: that's right. a u.s. government official tells me that according to these preliminary interviews, preliminary interviews with dzhokhar tsarnaev and the u.s. government is going to have to double back and check all of this information, but according to these preliminary interviews, what dzhokhar tsarnaev is conveying to investigators is the following. one, that there were not foreign terrorist groups involved in this terrorist plot, that it was just the two of them.

two, that there was a real online component to this radicalization done through videos, watching videos, not through communicating an e-mail with anyone abroad, but by watching those videos, that the older brother, tamerlan tsarnaev, was the driving force. of course, you would expect dzhokhar to say that, and we have also heard anecdotal accounts from relatives that that was their relationship, but that is what dzhokhar is saying in these preliminary interviews. these, according to this government official, these two seemed to be the kind of self-starter, self-radicalized jihadis according to these interviews, tamerlan seems to be motivated -- seems to have been motivated by the traditional jihadist view of the relationship between islam and the united states, the idea that they view islam as under attack and that jihadis need to fight back. the religious and political

motivation behind the traditional jihadi, the standard motivation as this government official put it, and that is so far in this preliminary series of interviews with dzhokhar, what he is conveying to them in their communications, in his debilitated state. >> jake, despite that debilitated state, he has been adjudged to be sound of mind and perfectly competent in terms of his ability to answer the questions which is clearly not what we feared may be the case even yesterday, when he was supposed to have shot himself in the neck and throat and so on and unable to talk. clearly he can communicate and in a lucid manner. that is highly significant. >> reporter: it is significant and if you read the transcript, he is quoted in the transcript as you pointed out in the introduction, that he says no at one point, although most of the communication is done by nodding his head. we have also been told that he's been writing some of his answers as well. his health obviously has been of serious concern. he's been in serious condition,

but he is able to communicate, he is talking to investigators or has talked to investigators, and so far, according to this government official, there has been some serious information that he has been able to offer. >> jake tapper, thank you very much indeed. now i want to bring in two men who knew the tsarnaev brothers, austin hightower is a students at the university of massachusetts dartmouth and he knows dzhokhar well, and julian pollard, tamerlan's sparring partner in a boxing gym. let me start with you, austin hightower. so many of dzhokhar's friends have been saying in the last week they cannot understand what on earth happened to make him do this, that he was a good guy, a friendly guy, a normal guy. you've heard all this all week. there must have been some sign to some of his friends surely that something wasn't quite right. >> mr. morgan, the only thing i can think of is we had a conversation probably two months ago or something in the dining

hall, and he looked a bit detached from when i had seen him before, probably a week or two before that. he looked a bit sadder. i can't really think of why that may be. perhaps it's because of his friends, they didn't come back second semester and so i saw him a lot less, but i know that he was a bit more detached from reality when i saw him not too long ago. >> you lived in the dorm building next to his. you actually helped him move in in his freshman year. what was he like in those early days? >> he was nice, funny. i had seen him walking around campus a bunch of times with his friends. he played basketball. he played intramural soccer here. i can't imagine that someone like the guy i met last summer is being accused of these hard things.

>> i mean, from all that you've read, the implication people are putting on this and apparently he himself is making this claim to investigators now, is that it was his brother who put all the pressure on him and turned him. did you know his brother? did you ever meet him? >> no. i never knew he had a brother. but it does seem to make the most sense, considering, knowing who he was and how he was for two years, yeah. >> when the fbi released the images of the suspects on thursday, you actually went to dzhokhar's facebook page and it was deleted. you then went to his twitter, saw his cryptic tweets, and at that point, did alarm bells ring for you? >> yeah. once i found out that it wasn't actually the missing brown student, i went back to the picture that i saw online and i promptly posted it on facebook and said i think i might know this guy, i hope i don't. surely enough, about 15 minutes later, there were about five

umass police officers outside my door asking me questions. >> had they been monitoring your facebook? >> no. i had mentioned it to someone, i had mentioned it to my roommate, i said i think i might know him, i think he lived next to us last year, and he said well, tell the fbi. i said well, you know, i know who he is so i don't think -- besides, they said it was the guy from brown university, so looking at that, i'm assuming that someone had heard our conversation and perhaps mentioned it to the umass police. >> soon after that, they of course shut down the school and we all know what happened next. austin hightower, thank you very much for joining me. >> any time. thank you. >> we'll turn to julian pollard. you were a fellow boxer who roomed actually with tamerlan during a tournament. what was he like? >> well, during that trip, i noticed tamerlan was a little bit of a flashy guy, really

sharp dresser, really confident in his abilities as a boxer. >> and he was a good boxer? >> he was. he had some skills. he had some punching power, good hand speed. he won a couple fights in lowell. he lost in the nationals but to make it to nationals is a good accomplishment. >> he ended up quitting boxing and i believe that you are under the understanding it's because he couldn't represent the united states. is that right? >> for some reason in the second tournament, the golden gloves, he couldn't travel with the team, so i thought it was because he wasn't allowed to represent the united states, but i can't say for sure. >> did he ever talk to you about religion or politics? >> he was definitely big -- the second year i met him, he was a lot -- talked a lot about his faith, just it seemed to really be more about what he was about,

his character. he spoke his faith to me many times, on the times i saw him, the second time around. he also talked about his wife or not his wife, his then-fiancee, him being in love with her. that's pretty much all we discussed, his faith and his family. >> did you notice his mood changing? did he become more aggressive? did he become more fearful of america or authority? >> i just noticed that he seemed more humble. like i said, in 2009, when i met him, he was a really flashy guy, very confident in his skills as a boxer. wasn't afraid to share that. he even told me he was going to teach me how to box a little. but the next year, he just seemed humble. he talked only about his faith. he talked about marrying this woman, you know. i just got a sense that he was a calmer guy and really only about his faith. >> what was your reaction when you discovered that he had been involved in this terrible atrocity?

>> i mean, i was saddened by the news like everyone else from this city. my heart went out to everyone that was involved and i was disappointed to know that someone from boxing, from the golden gloves, from the tournament, could be involved in something like that. it was a tragedy. the only reaction i could have was, you know, was a sad feeling for people that were hurt. >> julian, thank you for joining me. >> thanks. >> the tsarnaev brothers attended a mosque in cambridge, massachusetts where in january, tamerlan angrily disrupted a service. joining me is imam webb of the boston cultural center. welcome to you. you are the imam of a local mosque affiliated with the one that tamerlan tsarnaev attended. from all that you've now gleaned about what went on with him, were we seeing somebody who was being radicalized very quickly? >> i'm not sure i can answer

that question but definitely someone standing up in a friday prayer and questioning a preacher who is talking about martin luther king jr. might draw some flags but i don't think would require calling law enforcement. >> he made two protests on two different incidents. he branded people non-believer. clearly he was getting quite intense about his religion. >> yeah, i think that's where a qualified scholar or leader would need to step in and talk to him and see what his mindset was and from there, make a call on kind of what direction he was taking his religion. >> what has been the reaction in the mosques, both yours and the one of course that tamerlan tsarnaev attended? >> with regards to what? >> well, to what's happened. >> our reaction to what? >> your reaction, your discovery that somebody attending one of the mosques has been the perpetrator of this appalling

bombing. >> i think first and foremost as bostonians, our hearts and prayers are with the community. then there's a sense of anger and frustration that someone who would frequent one of our faith institutions would carry out such acts, so people seem to be very angry and upset with what he's done. >> is there any new system that you can put in place to raise more warning flags about characters like tamerlan, because it just seems to people that he's been plotting this in his head by being inspired by islamic fundamentalists on videos he found on the internet, to commit an appalling act of terror, and yet he's been going to this mosque -- >> indeed. >> -- hanging around with people. somebody must have spotted that he was getting more intense, potentially dangerous, because we know the russian authorities were wary enough about him to contact the fbi.

>> indeed, but i have to say, i don't think most mosques or churches or synagogues are law enforcement agencies. they don't have the same access that they would have. but i think what's important is that the mosque here in boston, the other mosque didn't appeal to his theology so i think the way to address that there was an interesting harvard study that said only 2% of the imams worldwide that call for global jihad had actually degrees from islamic educational institutions that are considered respectable. so i think one of the best ways is through properly trained scholars who can mediate and talk to people and see where they're coming from and try to address some of those radical ideas that they have. he wasn't radicalized in boston. it appears now that he was radicalized online. >> imam webb, thank you for joining me. >> thank you, sir. next i will talk the a lawmaker who says dzhokhar tsarnaev should have tortured if it helps to save more lives. plus inside today's dramatic bedside hearing for the accused bomber.

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an extraordinary court session took place inside a boston hospital today in the room was accused bomber dzhokhar tsarnaev, seriously wounded and under restraint in his bed, facing a federal magistrate, prosecutor and public defender. we have the transcript of that hearing tonight and it tells us a lot about the accused bomber and indeed about the case. cnn's jason carroll joins me with more. jason. >> reporter: you know, what we're being told, piers, is that this whole proceeding lasted for about 10, 15 minutes, began at about 11:30 this morning.

it began with everyone entering that hospital room, each person introducing themselves. u.s. magistrate judge ballard beginning things by saying, we will put up the comments here so you can read along in terms of what happened. i will read to you, the court, mr. tsarnaev, i am magistrate judge bowler. this hearing is your initial appearance before the court. we are here because you have been charged in a federal complaint. at this hearing i will advise you of your constitutional and legal rights. i will tell you about the charges against you and the penalties that the court could impose if you are found guilty. you have been charged with use of a weapon of mass destruction in violation of 18 united states code section 2322a and malicious destruction of property resulting in death in violation of 18 united states code section 844. then the judge goes on to say if at any time i say something that you do not understand, interrupt me and say so.

is that clear. at that point, the defendant nods affirmatively. the court then goes on to say all right. i note that the defendant has nodded affirmatively. as the first step in this hearing, i'm going to tell you about your constitutional rights. you have the right under the constitution of the united states to remain silent. any statement made by you may be used against you in court. you also have the right not to have your own words used against you. you may consult with an attorney prior to any questioning and you may have an attorney present during questioning. then we move on to the point where the judge says do you understand everything i've said about your right to remain silent. and at that point, once again, the defendant nods affirmatively. now, piers, the only time actually during this entire proceeding that tsarnaev actually spoke was when he was asked about an attorney. the judge says can you afford a lawyer? the defendant simply says no. the judge then says let the record reflect that i believe

the defendant has said no. also, piers, during this proceeding, it was made very clear to tsarnaev that he could be facing the death penalty. the judge made a point to enter into the record that he also found tsarnaev to be first alert, second mentally competent and finally, lucid. piers? >> do we know how long they are going to carry on talking to him for? >> reporter: well, you know, that is the big question here. you know, a trial like this before we actually get to trial, it could be a year or more out from where we are now. the very next step that people should know about is the -- is going to be basically the arraignment. that's where the defendant is formally charged. that should happen within ten days from today. piers? >> jason kacarroll, thank you vy much. this case raises a lot of questions about how the accused defendant should be treated. i want to begin with new york state senator greg bell, who

advocated torturing tsarnaev if it could save lives. welcome to you. you tweeted this. you said so scumbag number two in custody, who wouldn't use torture on this punk to save more lives. do you still believe that? >> absolutely. at the end of the day, i think you interview a lot of politicians. lot of politicians are scared of their own shadow and scared to say what they feel. i think that i share the feelings of a lot of red-blooded americans who believe that if we can save even one innocent american life, including we've seen the killing of children, that they would use and this is just for me, that they would use every tool at their disposal to do so. >> but he's an american citizen, dzhokhar tsarnaev. he committed a domestic crime in boston and he'll be tried in a u.s. civilian criminal court system. >> right. >> how you going to torture him? >> i mean, you're talking to the guy that supports death penalty for cop killers, terrorists.

>> yeah, but how would you torture him? >> i would support, i'm talking about me, if you want to talk to the president of the united states about his policies next time you golf or go play basketball with him, you can ask him. i'm telling you as greg ball, greg ball personally -- >> i understand you are're greg ball. >> you would put me in the room with anybody from the current scumbags to bin laden, i'm telling you what i would do. as far as the policy of the united states, you got to take it up with obama. >> if you start to torture an american citizen for committing a domestic crime in america, you are crossing the rubicon. >> can i ask you a question? what would you do if you were given the opportunity? if osama bin laden, if you had 30 minutes in the room, would you play cards with osama bin laden? >> let me put this to you. >> no. you answer this. if you met this scumbag -- >> i'm doing the interview. >> if you met these scumbag before he killed these people and turned people into amputees, what would you do, play cards?

maybe i should say it in a british accent. this man killed innocent men, women and children. >> can you stop being such a jerk? >> what would you do? you get paid for it. i would give you a taste of your own medicine. >> you tweeted this to the world. i'm curious what you think. your behavior so far has been really offensive. >> because you don't like it when you don't have another bobblehead you can beat up and treat like a coward? the reality is these men killed innocent men, women and children. as a red-blooded american, i say who out there if it would save an innocent -- >> you're not answering my questions. >> -- would not use torture. i would. >> i understand all the gung-ho language you're using. here's the point. do you realize if you torture this man, what you're basically endorsing is the torture of american citizens for committing domestic crimes inside america. would you as a politician want to bring that in as a standard matter of practice in your country, yes or no? >> what i am saying is that as an individual -- >> yes or no? >> if given the opportunity --

>> yes or no. >> -- to be in a room with somebody like osama bin laden, it would be me, osama bin laden and a baseball bat and yes, i would use torture. >> it's very macho. >> it's not about being macho. if i wanted to be macho i would challenge you to an arm wrestling contest. that's what i said on twitter. that's what i said today. you can ask it 100 times over. i will give you the same answer. alan dershowitz, if we can keep this as civil as possible, quite difficult currently, this would change everything if you start to torture american citizens for committing domestic crimes inside america. am i wrong? >> you're not wrong. i'm as red-blooded an american as anybody and i go back to thomas jefferson who actually wanted to change the fifth amendment which has very complicated language about self-incrimination and wanted to have simply an outright prohibition against all torture under all circumstances. torture is unconstitutional, illegal, in violation of every international treaty, should never under any circumstances be used. where i agree with him is that

it would be used if we actually had a ticking bomb terrorist case. if we actually had a situation where the choice was between letting a bomb go off and killing thousands of people or torturing somebody, every president would allow, even this president, who said he wouldn't, would not stop torture from occurring if that could save many, many lives. >> we know president obama would because he kept guantanamo bay open having campaigned originally to say he would close it. we know he would be prepared to do that. >> we know the former prime minister of australia said he would do it. very many political figures, given that choice. now, that choice almost never presents itself. certainly in a case like this where we've captured two people, there's no evidence that it goes beyond this. the use of torture in a situation like this is absolutely absurd. >> to clarify the point, because he did open up the show by look, theatrics is good and it is what it is, and i know you can take

it, but you did open up the show saying senator, you know, asked for torture. the tweet was very specific to alan's point, if it could save innocent americans lives. that's why i turned it back on you. i said punks and scumbags because that's exactly what they were. but if you could have stopped this two months ago, and torture would have worked -- >> you don't actually know what i think. >> could that have been effective. if it could have been effective, certainly i would have employed it. >> let's take a break. do you mind staying for a bit? stay for a bit. you've had a lot to say. let's say a bit more after the break. we'll be back with more of this after the break. to healthcare written by people just like you. with angie's list, i know who to call, and i know the results will be fantastic. angie's list -- reviews you can trust.

back now with alan dershowitz. i would have been back with senator greg ball from new york. unfortunately, he has left the building rather surprising for a man who described himself as a great red-blooded american who was going to hand me my british -- anyway, he's shown cowardice in the face of the ongoing debate and has left. there weave it. alan dershowitz, the points i was trying to make to the senator in the middle of his extraordinary ranting was that you would fundamentally change the way that america behaves in these situations when you have an american citizen as dzhokhar tsarnaev is and he commits a crime on american soil. if you start to regularly torture people in that circumstance, you're changing everything. >> absolutely. even if you treat him as an enemy combatant and deny him his right to a jury, his right to counsel, clearly you are changing everything because where does it stop? where are the limits? he hasn't even been indicted for

a terrorism crime. he's been indicted for a crime that anybody can be indicted for if they didn't like their mother-in-law and made an improvised bomb that could hurt a lot of people, and killed one person. so we have to have limits. the rule of law requires limitations and torture is something that should never been exceeded. as you know, i have famously or infamously called for torture warrants because i believe that torture would occur in extreme ticking bomb cases and i want accountability and visibility, but i don't want torture. >> alan dershowitz, thank you very much indeed. he's the top cop who oversaw the final moments of the week-long nightmare in and around boston. the manhunt that pitted hundreds of police officers against the armed and extremely dangerous tsarnaev brothers. joining me is watertown police chief. chief, thank you first of all for what you and your officers did in the last week because it really was heroic police work. i'm so glad for you that it ended finally with the capture of these two criminals.

in terms of the way it went on for you as the week went on, were there moments when you felt we're not going to catch this guy? >> well, we were right at it right from the beginning with our officers there at 12:25 a.m. in the back street of watertown. we didn't have much to think about except defending that neighborhood and those seven officers that first responded just did an incredible job to even get to that point. the gun fight, the explosions that were going on over there, i couldn't be prouder of our police department how they handled themselves in just horrific conditions. >> the one issue that hasn't really been explored thoroughly yet, because there's been bigger stuff to talk about, i guess, but let's talk about the firearms that they had. the "new york times" reported that between them, they had two hand guns, a bb gun, and an m-4 carbine assault rifle. is this your understanding?

>> i'm hearing all kinds of different things. they still are processing the evidence that they took out of there. there's just so much going on, we still have the crime scene down on franklin street where the boat is. so for our police department, 65 men and women, it's just overwhelming how much work we have to do. so i know there was firearms out there. i've heard all of those things. i've heard all the explosives. you know, our officers were in a terrible gun fight and you know, everything that they can see and remember, we still need to put together. >> the pursuit of dzhokhar tsarnaev ended with the extraordinary stand-off when he was hiding in the boat. we saw today the incredible thermal images taken of the boat. this is quite remarkable technology that you now have at your disposal, isn't it, in these situations. >> yes. those are assets that the

watertown police department doesn't normally have, but to sit in at the command post with the federal agencies and be able to watch it on the down link right there as it played out, it was incredible, what technology does for law enforcement now. >> one of the reports that has been repeated quite often in the last 24 hours is that dzhokhar actually ran over and killed his older brother, tamerlan, when he got away on that night after the gun fight. is that your understanding? >> exactly. that's my understanding. what occurred is the older brother had charged at one of our officers, shooting at him. they ended up within ten feet of each other exchanging gunfire. he ran out of ammunition and our officer was able to tackle him, put him to the ground. two other officers were on top of him and that's when the brother came roaring down the street with the carjacked suv with the full intent of killing my police officers. they were lucky enough to dive out of the way, but the brother

was run over at that same time. >> your officers i would imagine most of them have never been engaged in anything quite like this in their lives. how are they all bearing up now, now that it's over? >> you know, we've been together, we've given them some help, some comfort. it's going to take some time. they just did an incredible job. we're trained as a police department but what they saw that early morning is nothing you can prepare for. >> we didn't see any mention today of any criminal complaints surrounding the death of the m.i.t. police officer. do you know what the situation is with regard to that? >> no, i don't. we are just so overwhelmed with everything that's happening in watertown, i'm not exactly sure what's happening in cambridge. >> there are also, on that night, various what looked like

arrests going on, most notably of a naked man at one stage. people believed him to be the bomb suspect but later turned out not to be. can you shed any light on what was going on then, who these people were? >> sure. you can imagine what's going on. at that time, we had, you know, the one brother down, the other brother had escaped. we also had a transit police officer that was shot and was bleeding out. we were trying to -- my officers were completely tied up rendering him aid. they had -- one of our officers is a medic and trying to get him in the ambulance. at the same time, the officers that were coming in from surrounding communities had confronted that gentleman and one thing led to another. they keyed in on him. the concern was if he had a device, explosive device. he turned out to be not any individual that we were looking for. the officers needed to be safe at the same time.

>> right. well, chief, let me repeat again, my great gratitude on behalf of everyone in boston and america for what you did. it really was an extraordinary effort by you and your team, remarkable bravery shown throughout that week, and i'm just glad that you finally got these people where they should be, one obviously died but the other one is in custody, and hopefully will be brought to justice. thank you again. >> thank you, sir. when we come back, the argument in this country, should terror suspects be tried as enemy combatants. i'll ask the man who was attorney general for president george w. bush. when our little girl was born,

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the boston bombings set off a heated political debate about trying terror suspects as enemy comebatants. joining me is michael mukazy, former attorney general under president bush. there's been a real debate about whether he should be tried as an enemy combatant. what would you have recommended? >> shouldn't really be much of a debate. the statute that sets up the military commissions that we have now makes it unlawful to try an american citizen before

them. end of discussion. >> when you heard the state senator on earlier demanding the right to torture this man, what was your reaction to that? >> come on. we don't torture. torture is illegal under the u.s. statute. i know of no instance in which anybody has committed officially sanctioned torture. >> we know president bush sanctioned waterboarding, right? >> yes. >> on three occasions, i think. >> yes. >> that doesn't legally -- >> there are memos describing exactly what the torture statute says, it's unlawful to act under color of law to impose severe physical or mental pain or suffering and severe physical pain or suffering isn't defined. severe mental pain or suffering is defined in durational terms. and waterboarding has been used and is used to train u.s. special forces and s.e.a.l.s. it is not torture. >> vulgar, though, senator ball

was throughout that extraordinary exchange, there will be people watching, there will be many americans who feel yeah, i've got no problem with taking this guy, dzhokhar tsarnaev, out the back and roughing him up a bit if it reveals information about potentially other terror attacks he may have knowledge of. what do you say to them given that he is an american citizen who committed a crime on american soil? >> what i say to them is that, i mean, the rough stuff, let's put that aside for a minute. there is nothing to stop the president from sending in a group of people, be they fbi agents or defense intelligence agency people or military people, to interrogate him in any fashion short of something illegal in order to get intelligence, provided that that's not used in connection with this criminal case. they can do that even after he was indicted. >> they can do that at any time even after they read him his miranda rights? >> yes, that's my view.

>> so that changes nothing in view of their ability to interrogate? >> what it changes is their ability to question him and use any statement that he makes. that they're not allowed to do. >> he is apparently claiming -- >> they don't need that in this case. they got a mountain of evidence against this guy. >> right. they have testified it seems against him and his brother for the act they perpetrated. >> correct. >> what they will i'm sure be extremely curious to find out if they can is are they part of a wider group of either like-minded individuals who have been coordinating themselves reading stuff on the internet, videos and so on, which apparently is what he's claiming. whether they're attached to anybody in chechnya, for example, or islamic fundamentalist nature, et cetera, et cetera, how far can you go in terms of eliciting that information from somebody like him in his position once he's had his miranda rights read to him as he now has? >> my view is you can go as far as you think it's productive to go. however, i don't think it's terribly productive to question

him beyond a few questions about -- unless he's freely talking which i seriously doubt. i think it's far more productive to exploit things like electronic records, like their personal computers and so forth, bank records, telephone records, that sort of thing is going to disclose a lot more than he will, i think. >> does he have any kind of defense you could at the moment draw up? >> well, he's going to obviously the mitigation strategy is my big brother made me do it. >> right. is that remotely plausible as a defense strategy? >> as a defense? no. it can be used to keep him off the table where they give you the needle, i suppose. >> thank you very much indeed. >> thanks. when we come back, did the fbi drop the ball in this investigation? i'll ask the man who was second in command during the investigation of the 1993 world trade center bombing. [ pacino ] the inches we need

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dzhokhar tsarnaev. claims no

foreign terrorist terrorist groups were involved and his older brother was the mastermind and they learned from watching videos on-line. i want to bring in former assistant director gavin and the vice president of -- from the world's top security services. clearly the fbi having considerable skes success in getting information to dzhokhar. can we trust it? what is the gut feeling from the way it is playing out? >> the gut feeling i'm getting, of course he is blaming it all on big brother. everything he says has to be vetted. there has to be some way they can put tags on and see if he is telling the truth or not. and if he isn't you don't do much more with it. >> in terms of the hard evidence they went to great lengths today to outline the case which includes the fact they have video evidence of both brothers apparently planting the two devices and they have been able to link evidence from those

devices to the cars, later hijacking, et cetera. is there enough there already, do you think, this is an open and shut criminal case on their complicity in the bombing? >> if i were the prosecutor i'd feel comfortable at this particular point in time no matter what he had to say once mirandaized. i think i would be comfortable doing that. he has the individual from whom they hijacked the car. they told him they were the people that laid down the bombs. >> they actually said to him, did you hear about the boston explosion. i did that -- >> it reminds me of the evidence that ramzi yousef told me coming down the hudson river in the helicopter. i said the trade center is still standing and he said they wouldn't be if i had enough explosive and money. that is a powerful statement and i think what this young man is also powerful. >> one of the unsettling aspects

the fbi has done with this, they have done an incredible job but they were warned about dzhokhar tsarnaev and asked if they should look in to him. -- tamerlan. they said there is nothing to worry about and now we know there is a lot to worry about. have there been any failings you could see. >> it is a difficult set of circumstances. first of all the russians are asking about chechen. not doing it because they like chechens. they are doing it because they have history with the country. secondly, when you ask those kinds of questions, there's only so far you can go. you can't force anybody to tell you. they did probably all the background stuff with the

electronic hurricanes looking-- electrons and looking at things. somebody said just ask if he is a terrorist and there is only so many things you can do once there is no red flags there and no red flags in this one. >> another incident today in canada a plot foiled. authorities arrested two men planning an al qaeda attack against a passenger plane from canada in to america. -- a train, i'm sorry. from canada in to america. they think from toronto to new york. what did you make of that? if there is a link they are active and dangerous. >> there is no doubt they haven't stopped. it is not a matter of if but when n. this case in canada, going toronto to the united states, these two individuals are not canadian citizens.

iran is saying they are not allocaail a ail kie da. -- ail kad da. -- the problem is huge and thank god they took them down early. when they had enough evidence to probably convict him. by the same token before they had a chance to do anything. it was horrendous to anybody. >> if you were running this fbi now, would you be concerned about what has happened with these two brothers in the sense that it just shows how easy it is for people who have been turned, as it appears they were, by some religious fundamentalist believes they have seen on the internet. able to create bombs through stuff they read on-line as well. home-grown terrorism with no apparent red flags at all. >> home grown terrorism is the scariest thing about terrorism today. particularly if you have somebody who is self radicalized

and in this case two brothers who never spoke to anybody about what they were going to document that's where you lose -- that's where they are the worst. they don't share it. if you have a cell somebody will say something they shouldn't be saying. but in this case there was no prewarning or nothing and that scares us all to death and redouble our efforts to look at the communications to keep that antenna up and the spirit of cooperation between law enforcement and intelligence agencies. that is so important in these cases. >> do you believe they were acting on their own, or is it more likely the older brother when he went to russia had contact with in chechnya with some nasty people. >> i have a question mark in my mind. it wasn't a sophisticated bomb but it wasn't simplistic. it is not like making a cake and reading a cookbook. it doesn't work that way. it is difficult to do. if they were supported by somebody they left them dry because their exit strategy is

terrible and hung these two kids out to dry. >> gavin, thank you very much indeed. >> that's it for us. we will be back at midnight with a look at the chechen connection in this case. that is at midnight. our team coverage continues now with anderson cooper in boston. ♪ high like a private jet free-credit-score-dot-com ♪ ♪ don't forget! narrator: offer applies with enrollment in freecreditscore.com introducing bbm video with screen share. hey aleigh. hey! carol! update on 171 woodward..... let's other people see what's on your screen. and these are the material studies. the dog was my suggestion. aleigh. aleigh! it's great. but i'm on vacation for another week, remember? oh, right! i'll call you tomorrow! ok. but don't. carol? the blackberry z10 with screen share. powerful communication on the powerful network. verizon.

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